Dan Blumin Interview Transcript:

 Francisco 00:01

Hello Dan Blumin, welcome back. I'm Francisco, your host. My guest today is an artist and art lover and explore a healthcare specialist, and my friend Dan Blumin. It's such a pleasure to have you on the show. Dan Blumin, how are you today? 

Dan Blumin 00:35

I'm doing so well. Thank you for asking.

Francisco 00:38

Dan, I'm excited to have you on the show for a variety of reasons. One of them is your diverse set of expertises. If that's an appropriate vocabulary term there. And the one I want to dive into first, I mentioned it briefly in your introduction is your love of street art. You come fresh off the streets of New York City, you were born and raised there in New Jersey to the greater New York area. Tell us about what makes street art so magical what exactly it is?

Dan Blumin 01:03

It's a great question. Especially living in New York, it's really interesting, because there's a huge historical significance for street art and in general graffiti as well. I got really into it growing up because I came across an Italian collective called “Memory Urbane”, and they used to sort of highlight different street artists in Europe, and introduced me to a couple Polish street artists that I got really, really into and really enjoyed watching their different murals all over Poland and the rest of Europe, which was really, really cool. So I'm really attracted to this idea of taking huge spaces, usually just boring building sides, and nothing really that interesting and transforming them into massive collaborative pieces of art. So that was really interesting to me. And I continue to look into that. So New York is sort of an extension of that passion of mine, I started looking into all the different artists that live in my neighborhood, because I live in a very colorful part of Brooklyn, New York. And it became about trying to understand the different stories of these various artists where all of their murals and their art forms are scattered through the neighborhood like little gems. So I enjoy street art, because it's beautiful, and creates color and flavor to where you live. But also, for those little micro stories that you can identify by seeing certain artists represent their themes across neighborhoods and blocks and it's a lot of fun.

Francisco 02:36

You're absolutely right. We have this perception of street artists taking over the streets and a great artist, maybe the most famous street artist of all Banksy. He brought this argument, we allow billboards and we allow advertisements to take over our spaces. Why shouldn't we allow the public to make their own art? You live in Bushwick in Brooklyn, which is kind of a burgeoning art scene if it's not already established. Tell us about some of the street artists there, and what makes them so exciting.

Dan Blumin 03:00

So what's really exciting about the art in where I live is, a few years ago, or maybe it's close to 15 years ago, there was this guy who wanted to use the super industrial space of Bushwick to highlight up and coming New York street artists. So we started this collective called the “Bushwick Collective”, and the idea was that he would go out and talk to local businesses in different areas, landowners and ask them for permission to use their walls to highlight these artists. And then what's cool about the “Bushwick Collective” is, it's very, very New York based, so a lot of the artists there are recurrent and will pop up to other neighborhoods. So example of one Spiro Spiros is his name, he makes these beautiful portraits of people that are a little bit elongated, or almost cartoonish with massive ears, and his portraits will cover an entire facade of a building, which I thought was pretty interesting and other groups are much smaller. So there's an artist that goes by to the moon, and that's exactly what it is. It just says to the moon everywhere, it's be on the sidewalk, it'd be on the side of a little fast food shop. You just see to the moon throughout the neighborhood. And then if you go a couple neighborhoods over you'll see to the moon in different various places. So it becomes almost like a scavenger hunt and paying attention to the streets and what's around you. So the scene there is really interesting because it's focusing on highlighting his local artists and taking their talents and bringing them directly to the street. 

Francisco 04:42

I love what you're saying there because Bushwick is an industrialized zone, or it used to be a big warehouses. And so read reclaiming those big, ugly beige and gray walls and transforming them into something provocative is a big deal.

Dan Blumin 04:56

It's really amazing because when you move further and further away from Bushwick, which is very local, you actually start to gain a little bit of international as well. So when you get into Williamsburg, which is one neighborhood over, you get to see a lot more international influence. So, Mexican muralists “ROA”, I believe from Mexico, really amazing animal based murals that are really beautiful. You have also really famous muralist “Cobra” from Brazil. So it's a hotspot for that attracts these different artists. And it's cool that as you move further away from the water further away from Manhattan, you get very hyper local approaches to art. And then as you move closer, you get much more international and broader and splashier and flashier. So they're both really awesome. But you get to experience the more local art aspect when you look around Bushwick.

Francisco 05:46

New York City is kind of a magical place for that reason and attracts people from all over the world, international people and then not unlike yourself. You were born here in United States, both your parents are Russian. Tell us about what that was like growing up? How did those two cultures play a role in your identity?  

Dan Blumin 06:03

It’s a great question. So I consider myself a Russian American. And I was born in America, and a first generation American, my parents both immigrated in the late 80s, 1989, and they were political refugees from the USSR. Before Russia really opened up the trade and became more commerce friendly, it was a very difficult place to be. But when I was born in the US, both my parents realized that anybody that grows up somewhere or is born or lives in certain country, will obviously take on the characteristics of that country, you'll learn English, you'll know American movies, you'll be an American, but what they felt would not happen is the inverse. So you can't learn to be Russian, and learn all these super specific cultural elements of being a Russian person, whether that's humor, food, language, the nuances of language, music and film. So growing up in America, I spent many years my brother and I both, we learned all things Russian first, and to the point where that's kind of ingrained in us and we spoke Russian all the way up until kindergarten, basically. And now my brother and I have this understanding of the Russian language and culture that is ingrained in us. So provides additional color to our experience growing up in America, where we do feel that sort of immigrant background, and there is this sort of unique aspect of the American melting pot where you have people that are born here, but take on a lot of aspects of their family background and culture.

Francisco 07:42

How this additional Russian culture affected or shaped your perspective on America and what it means to be American?

Dan Blumin 07:51

A lot of it has really shaped my understanding that America is a fantastic and beautiful country. So for a lot of immigrants that make it here and are successful and are able to find success, it's pretty lucky that that is the case. So talking to my parents about their experience in Russia, and what that was like, is quite challenging when you learn about how difficult that experience can be. So, that led me to really appreciate growing up in America and all the opportunities that are available to us, the fact that we can explore different cultural elements or pursue what we want without being hindered. In Russia at the time, my parents were saying they were barred from doing just about anything, because of their cultural and religious backgrounds and being Jewish, they were not allowed to go to law school, even though my mom really wanted to. So here, there's so much opportunity and there's a love of potential for success and that's really special.

Francisco 08:55

You're right. And a lot of people think of success as climbing up a ladder or facing different challenges as you climb upwards. So with that analogy, I want to transition into another part of your life, which is rock climbing that you started to get into. It's all about climbing. But it's so much more than just reaching the top. It's about what is it about?

Dan Blumin 09:15

It's a good question. So my roommate really got me into rock climbing. My roommate is an incredible human being his name is Mike. And he was interested in the sport and started taking it quite seriously. So first, he went to the indoor rock climbing gym. Then he started climbing outdoors and learning how to do different types of climbing. So there's a top rope where you're kind of supported an anchor at the top of where you want to go and you're always being what's called the belayed or supported by your climbing partner on a rope. There's also lead climbing where you make your way up. And as you make your way up, you set your different anchor points along the way, on the route to the top. So, Mike really enjoyed it. And he told me, you'd enjoy it too. So why don't you come out with me and we'll go check it out together. And so he got me little by little more and more into it. I can't say that I'm a really great rock climber, I have a lot to learn still, but I do enjoy it. Especially the act of climbing outdoors is super gratifying and creates this very peaceful and also challenging experience where it's you against yourself, because your opponent is a wall of rock, you're trying to creatively come up with solutions with your body almost like a body and mind puzzle to scale this surface. And it can be incredibly challenging and there's two elements that make it very gratifying. So the first is that unique creative problem solving, we use your body to solve a puzzle, like a jigsaw puzzle. And the second thing that I really like a lot is sort of, to push yourself to achieve things. Oftentimes, we sort of feel, “Oh, it's too hard, I can't do it,” or you make it up partially, and you don't want to finish it because you're too tired. That climbing has really challenged me to get past that mentality of sort of, “oh, well, I tried and I made it halfway and I don't want to finish it.” I actually have had a few moments this year where I did something really challenging on a climbing trip. And there's no way I can complete that. But then pushing yourself to say, hey, you can do it is within your purview to complete. So that kind of aspect of it to this personal challenge, as well as this mental and physical puzzle, makes it a very exciting experience.

Francisco 11:40

You're right, it's magical. Many of the other sports that we play, are schemes of conquest, where you want to defeat another team or something but the magic of climbing is that you're out there sometimes in nature and you're just kind of challenging yourself. And like you said, exercising your mind to complete a puzzle and to push yourself to go further. You were recently in Colorado, and you tested out some different kinds of rock climbing. Tell us about what those different surfaces taught you.

Dan Blumin 12:09

It's awesome. There's so many different types of rock. And at first you think, “Oh, rock climbing, you just go up and down.” But there's so many different qualities.

So I went on this climbing trip with Mike, my brother and a good friend of mine, Ray, who I grew up with as well – the four of us, we tried a couple different things.

The first day, we went north of Denver, and we climbed in this beautiful roaring river mountain Gorge, basically, where there's this amazing river flowing through it, and the rock there is granite and gneiss, G-N-E-I-S-S. And that rock is very, very grabble, there's lots of holds. And there are different terms for these holds. So the super large kind of stick your whole hand and pull yourself up hold is usually called a jug. So there's lots of jugs things you can hold on to. The other thing is, it was also what's called “Slabby”. So slabs are not fully vertical faces, they have a little bit of an incline. But it was really nice to experience climbing on that kind of rock because you're in this beautiful natural area surrounded by trees and this Roaring River. And you're gripping this sort of really sandpaper-esque granite rock and pulling yourself up in these huge cracks. It wasn't as technically difficult, but there was definitely a lot of challenge with choosing your way. And then the next rock we tried totally different part of Colorado. I think it was down south in what's called the “Valley of the Gods”. It's red sandstone. So this rock is totally different. It is also equally meant to be climbed. But it's incredibly smooth and there's very, very little things to hang on to. So with granite, you can shove your whole hand to a rock and maybe even grab someone like you might be shaking someone's hand and pull yourself up. But here the only thing you could hold on to a little divots in the rock that are barely half an inch deep. You can only just toss your fingertips on there. And your feet are barely hanging on to anything. They almost look completely perpendicular to the rock. So it creates this sort of fear of like, I can't believe my body is going to move upwards and there's nothing to hold on to. So that was also pretty fun was trying to super different rock and conquering my fear of, well, I don't know where to put my feet or my hands. There's nothing to grab. But it's also very different and the environment is very different. This red rock surrounded by more, the desert style vegetation, very different, very beautiful.

Francisco 14:52

I love this so much picturing a New York City who's used to all these skyscrapers around climbing different rocks. It's also a beautiful analogy for life, where there are different kinds of challenges that you face and you have to use different approaches as you go through them. 

Dan Blumin 15:08

It's funny, you mentioned that because after you come back from something like that you're walking around New York City, and you see all these skyscrapers and bank buildings. And all the bricks are built in such a way where I can cut my fingers.

Francisco 15:21

Everything seems like it's claimable, that's exciting. Well, I also love painting this image because like I said, you're a New York guy through and through, you work for your office technically is right above Penn Station. You've been working remotely, but you've done the classic New York stuff with your suit and riding the metro and listening to books on the metros is in DC. Tell us about how both aspects of your life and how do you balance both of them? I should mention that you're a consultant for a big healthcare firm?

Dan Blumin 15:57

It's a good question. What really drives me is an enjoyment and of adventure. And also an enjoyment of life in general, and keeping a positive mindset and enjoying life through what it has to offer in the most positive way possible. And this balance sometimes seems unattainable. How can you go rock climb, and be outdoors and experience all these different things, while you also are beholden to being in the office and doing all these super consulting things and wearing a suit and working with clients. Well, one is, it's become much more attainable, because I'd become much more remote. So working remote has become a reality for me this past year and a half. But the other hand, it's sort of being able to balance your work and life in a way that brings you joy and benefit. Because the consulting world and a lot of young professionals my age, everybody feels this pressure to work, work, work non-stop. And success can only be achieved and happiness can only be achieved by demonstrating that you're an incredibly hard worker, and that you spent your early 20s grinding to be successful, and I disagree. I learned this year that success is equal parts, doing a good job at what you do, but also learning to enjoy your life at the same time. It doesn't have to be a zero-sum game, they can go hand in hand together. And finding that balance is really challenging for people. They say it's a “work life balance”. I work from 9-5, I come home and then my computer aside, and then that's my balance. I can do the other things I want to do. But I don't think that they have to be separate that, you can find ways to live your life in comfort and enjoyment while doing a great job and not be captured by that intense stress that permeates most of our young generation. 

Francisco 17:57

I love that you said that Richard Branson, the founder of Virgin Galactic, Virgin Records. He said that there is no work in play. There's only life. So that's a great way for us to conclude this part of our interview with Dan Blumin, but we're gonna be back soon on Hello, Dan Blumin, with this amazing guest. Thanks so much for joining us.

Dan Blumin 18:17

Thank you for having me.

Francisco 18:25

Hello, Dan Blumin. Welcome back. I'm here with my guest, Dan Blumin. Dan, we were earlier talking about your life and work philosophy. But we haven't touched on maybe where some of that came from, which is your Buddhist background. I know that your parents though Jewish, since became Buddhist, tell us about what Buddhism is and what it's meant to you? 

Dan Blumin 18:44

It's a great question. So just for context, my mom, she found Buddhism at some point after moving to the US. And then as I was growing up, it was a big part of my life. Spent a lot of time going to Buddhist teaching, specifically Tibetan Buddhism. And within Tibetan Buddhism, there are different schools of thought. So this is the Deikun Kagyu school of thought. So I spent a lot of my childhood attending these teachings and being a part of learning about this really amazing religion and culture. So it's really, really fascinating. At the core of it, there's a philosophy that underlines the way that human beings should interact with each other or not even should but sort of recommends, and a lot of it is focused on your mind and looking inwards and it's really quite a fascinating thing. There's also quite a religious aspect to it as well. So there's a lot of prayer that goes into meditation in the path to achieve enlightenment and help other people achieve enlightenment as well. For me growing up with this, in the background in my life, it really has impacted my philosophy on how I like to treat other people and how I like to live my life and my brother as well, the two of us have shared this sort of philosophy.

Francisco 20:05

So, one small representation of your Buddhist upbringing is the bracelet and your wrist. Tell us about that?

Dan Blumin 20:12

I used to have a silver bracelet on my wrist, which recently broke, but it was a mantra, Buddhist mantra, Om Mani Padme home. And a lot of prayer and meditation sort of focuses on different mantras which represent each sound or symbol or letter represents a different thing. So I don't recall all the exact meaning of it. But there is wisdom, for example, as part of that. And so you sort of represent these ideas and prayers as you practice usually with a teacher and other students. And so it's sort of a mix of prayer and meditation combined with sort of lecture from these teachers, these sort of enlightened teachers that have come, achieved enlightenment, but stay on Earth to help other people achieve that as well. And then I also have this registering, which is something that I wear often and have worn for a very long time. And basically, it's imbued with prayer and is blessed, and you wear it around your wrist. And if it breaks or falls off, then you either burn it or hanging on a tree. And it's sort of a symbol of impermanence, that not everything is meant to be forever, which is quite sobering.

Francisco 21:19

It is a sobering thought, but a fascinating one. And too many people who think of Tibetan Buddhism, we think of the Dalai Lama, we think of his many books that you see in bookstores, about joy and about appreciation. But we often those images of the temples in Lhasa or all over the world, don't necessarily immediately come to mind. You were a part of building something slightly more permanent, which was really fascinating. Tell us about the temple that you built in Lake Baikal

Dan Blumin 21:59

So when I was about 10, or 11 years old, my brother and I joined my mom on this trip to Lake Baikal, which is the largest lake in the world. It's located in Siberia in Russia. And as part of this trip, the plan was to build what's called a stupa, which is a small Buddhist temple, but it's not temple you can enter, it's sort of like a monument in a way. I will talk a little bit more about that. But before this trip, basically a few years prior, there was sort of a trip of Tibetan Buddhists that went out to Lake Baikal for a meditation and a practice, they had a teacher with them. And then while they were there, they were out on an island in this lake. And they had built a miniature stupa that's been shared in the temple shrine out of rocks, almost like a hiking Karen. And then years later, they said, what if we came back and we actually built a permanent structure there that is this, this blessed side, the stupa. So that was part of that that trip. And basically, we came back and there was a huge camp of people that established a semi-permanent camp there, and a whole group of builders as well. And over the course of a few months, they built a permanent structure, the stupa. And it's not a huge size, bigger house or anything like that. But it's basically a small temple building, like a little shrine that you can walk around. And basically, in the process of building this, we spent a month out there living in tents. And also, there's a lot of different processes that went into building this particular structure. Because it's not just building a building, it's also a Holy site, representative of the Buddhist religion and philosophy. So as you built it, there are all these different rituals and different practices that you had to complete as part of the building of this structure. Just pretty crazy. 

Francisco 24:04

Talk about those. 

Dan Blumin 24:05

There are all sorts of different ones that went into it. So for example, we had to take massive, massive rolls of Buddhist texts and collect them in these large bags and bless them and then place them in the bottom of the stupor and also the stupa is a structure that has three different sort of stepping levels, and then there's a little dome and a core. So each level had different blessings and teachings and rituals associated with it. So the first stepping stone for example, there's an incorporation of all these items that you had to find representative of war, evil or battle. And, for example, like a sickle or a knife or even like a diffused mortar show. And they were all sort of placed in the base of this temple and sort of as a representation of it collecting all like the negative and the evil. There was a box that we painted black that collected, it was supposed to be a collection of all these evil manifestations and ideas and trapping that together. There was hundreds of rocks that we collected and stamped with different Buddhist mantras on them, and of different colors. So Omani Padma at home, the bracelet I had, we had each one of those symbols, we were stamping on hundreds upon hundreds of these white rocks. The core, for example of the stupa was a tree that they had carved the tree into this beautiful, they would work to this tree into the spire. And in the spire, they had inlaid these little figurines of golden Buddhas and Holy figures. So there was many, many, many different examples of these rituals that were conducted as they were building this structure, which is really interesting. Because it's an incredibly complex and unique process, and it's not just, alright, we're gonna bring the cement we're gonna build the stain, painted white relief. It's a multi month process, because each portion of building this temple is it takes time. And the other thing that's interesting is it's in Siberia, it's in Baikal. So the weather is ever changing constantly and that was pretty interesting. So it's like this really dynamic environment, which was pretty, pretty cool for a kid.

Francisco 26:24

I can't imagine a more early formative experience in building a stupa with your friends and family.

Dan Blumin 26:31

The other interesting thing is, and I want to mention this earlier, so what it left me with and my brother is sort of understanding and love of the Buddhist philosophy, and a lot of the underlying tenets of Buddhism. So most of it is focused on being a positive force in the world. So compassion, staying away from negative emotions, negative things, trying to be the best you can be for what they call the benefit of all beings. And that's something I try and take into my life is trying to keep a very positive outlook, trying to support my friends, support my family, and stay away from negativity, and stay away from the emotions and things that cause negativity. Waking up and being thankful for having woken up and using all my energy to make the world a better place or be a better person. That's kind of where like the tenants of Buddhism leads you to the sort of self-betterment, but also for the benefit of all beings and others.

Francisco 27:34

That's powerful. And you do that in a variety of different ways. I know that while you were building a stupa, it wasn't the only thing that you were completely dedicated to. There was a little bit of art in there, you had an art tutor this is kind of. So it was the beginning of two important aspects of your life. You're a Buddhist prayer, and you tell us about how you got started in the art world there?

Dan Blumin 27:53

So I feel very lucky. Because one thing that my parents did was try and expose us to a lot of different things, and then see what we enjoyed and kind of create a nice palette or background of interests or knowledge in the world. And one of those things was art. And growing up, we had this amazing art teacher from Russia, his name was Leonid Schinsky, really great guy. And we would just meet up every week with a series of students and we would learn about drawing painting across all mediums. So it's pencil charcoal, watercolor, oil, acrylic, all these pastel. And we would sort of learn about all these things and sort of paint and just sit and talk and gain these skills. And then also his son, Nikita, who's a good friend of mine today too. He was also really involved in that process. So every week, we would go to the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and we would do an hour art history lecture. So he would lecture us about art history in different periods of different places. He's incredibly intelligent in that space. And it would spend an hour drawing and sketching different statues and paintings and refining the skill set with his guidance. So that created a really massive love of art for me, and brought that into the rest of my life where I would sometimes out paint or draw or even on the subway going to work, I would doodle on my phone and draw people and kind of characters. So it's not as consistent in my life anymore as much as it used to be but I do think I have this love of art and artistic formed as a result of that. And when we were in Baikal building, the stupa, Nikita was there to actually and he was always painting and he had this this vision of a couple things. So one is he wanted to paint all of the different characters on the trip that were builders from Tajikistan, he wanted to paint them and sort of like an homage to them. And then he also painted the teacher that was there, the Buddhist teacher, and he would also paint a lot of the landscape as well. So it's pretty cool to have that there as well as we were buildings for that artistic influence, and we would paint a little bit.

Francisco 30:15

That's amazing that you had a tutor. Many people come to art in a variety of different ways. Some are intimidated in a museum, some are enlightened by something they see on the street, and to be steeped in it so early on, is such a privilege. How has your early art education changed the way you see the world?

Dan Blumin 30:37

Two things. So one, it gives me a better appreciation for detail. I'm always looking into different things like we talked about street art, and how in the neighborhood, there are all these different signals of art and color everywhere, and you don't usually pay attention to them. But being so persistent and learning about the art world has kind of given me an appreciation for detail. And the other thing is, I seek it out. I enjoy going to a new city and be, well, what are the different art museums or, where are these different galleries? And I appreciate going to gallery openings, even if they're bizarre. Contemporary art that makes no sense to me, it's still a lot of fun to go witness and see what are different artists doing, what are they creating, and that sort of interest in creation has sort of been retained as a result of my upbringing with art in it.

Francisco 31:29

Life is better with artists, isn't it? 

Dan Blumin 31:32

That it is, I agree

Francisco 31:34

That's brilliant that you share that. I mean, art for so many can be scary, you dive into a whole new world if you're looking at art in a specific way. And that's always been its intention, since the beginning. So I'm glad that you shared that I want to talk about another thing that you seem to hear, you're always in the details in this other world which is the world of healthcare, and public health. That's part of what you studied in undergraduate is what your job was, you've done a lot of different things in the public health world. Tell us about the art of taking care of people and how that manifests in the world today? 

Dan Blumin 32:11

It's a great question. I've had a long journey in heading into the healthcare world. And it really started at a younger age, and I was in high school, and I was looking at a couple things. So one, I was studying biology and was really curious about how the body works and health systems in the body. So I did some research in high school at a lab where I was learning a lot about the cellular biology and disease and trying to understand, how the different interactions within cells impact the way disease can potentially be treated, or looking at liver disease, trying to understand that a little bit more. And then I had curiosity about the scientific side of it is really cool. But when you look outwards more broadly, what does this mean for actual helping people. So I became an EMT. I learned how to work on an ambulance, it was a really grueling school process, one summer, but I did it. I got certified in New Jersey, and I got an EMT license. So for a couple years, I was volunteering on an ambulance in my hometown, and learning about what it's like to actually treat people, in the case of EMTs, are not necessarily treating as much as you're stabilizing and transporting to the hospital. But I got to work with patients and really understand what does that one on one interaction like? So that was really enlightening and very interesting. But I also had more questions about, whenever we drop the patients off of the hospital, I noticed there were sort of inconsistencies or delays. So the next logical thought I had was, I really like working with people like that. But I want to have more impact in a broader level, how can I potentially look into ways to improve the hospital or hospital systems? So it kind of created that curiosity about, how can I improve systems of health? I kind of permeated everything else that I did. Following that, I looked at first, when I was in college, I worked on this consulting project for Children's National Medical Center in DC. We're trying to learn how we could possibly improve their radiology program and understand why they're delayed, why are people missing appointments? And try to improve that. And then my curiosity kept bleeding me further and further into trying to understand, what are the best ways we can uncover inconsistencies in health care and improve them? So I did some advocacy work in DC on Capitol Hill, I did some advocacy work and research for global health measures and global health outcomes at UCLA Healthcare company called Medtronic. And then today, I work in the biotechnology consulting fields trying to understand mostly ways in which we can improve patient access to oncology therapeutics. So looking into the world of cancer. So I've had an interesting journey, and every step of the way has been different. And I've kept pushing myself to learn more about each piece of healthcare.

Francisco 35:09

How has working with people affected the way that you currently manage, oncology treatments? Because we don't often work with patients and patients is not really? 

Dan Blumin 35:17

I'm on the consulting side of the healthcare world. And it's less about working directly with patients, it's more about working on solving and understanding big scale problems within oncology. So that could be an example that if there's a new treatment that's been developed, how can it be applied to the hospital setting, or what are the gaps and challenges associated with novel ways of treating certain cancers? So I'll be hired to understand those gaps and challenges and discover ways in which we can improve that connection. Sometimes it's research about the hospital side, the providers, what are the treatment approaches to certain cancers. Sometimes it's also, researching the other side, which is sort of thinking about the insurance and the payer side of the healthcare system. Occasionally, it's also about understanding, you know, distribution and the pharmacy side. So there's all different aspects of healthcare we look into. And I don't get to work with patients or work with people directly anymore, but I do get to interview the best minds in oncology all over the country and learn about how they approach treatment, which is pretty cool.

Francisco 36:25

Well, what I love about this, I did talk about the art or I call it the art of healthcare, which I think it is in that it's a huge system that we have right now, and there's a lot of different details. And to think that your art background helped you see the details of the healthcare world and to try to accent them, accentuate them and highlight what's so good about it.

Dan Blumin 36:49

I like to describe the healthcare system in the US. And I'm sure in other places too, is I like to call it a giant web, spider web per se. And within the spider web, you have these nodes, these different aspects, these big themes. For example, one of those big themes could be a hospital, one of those big themes could be your insurance company, one of those big themes could be pharmacy, could be a pharmaceutical manufacturer, it could be a doctor, a nurse. So part of the beauty of the detail in healthcare is learning to understand all the different interactions and threads between these big themes and all the nuances. And you can ask anyone that works in healthcare, you could spend 30 years trying to learn about it and still not understand it, especially in the US. It's incredibly complex, but attention to detail. There's something we value a lot in the consulting world and something we value a lot in trying to understand the nuances of healthcare. So looking at it from that artistic lens helps me identify and pick out details about what makes the US Healthcare system so unique and complex and sometimes incredibly frustrating.

Francisco 38:06

Well, I'm glad that you helped shed some light on this. It's been such a pleasure talking with you, Dan, about some different parts of your life and we hope to have you back on the show.

 Dan Blumin 38:14

Thank you for having me. I feel very lucky to be here and thank you again.